CBDNA - Teaching Music - Establishing Alliances

1- University band concert in tours to your school? Are they helpful and an incentive to your students?
Other:.5%  -"usually, cost is quite high, making this impossible"
  -"generally yes, some have been a turnoff"

2- College men guest conducting your band? Worthwhile?
Other:3%  -"if time permits"; "depends on person"; "sometimes"

3- Do you ask college directors to do this-or do you feel high school directors are more helpful to one another?
High School:23% 
Other:3%  -"either"; "neither"; "depends on director"; "only for honor groups"; "ask both with quality in mind"

4- College Students coming to your school for clinic/concert type experiences?
Other:1%  -"rarely"; "if they have knowledge of the type of clinic they are giving"

5- High school band playing concerts at college music schools?

6- The professional approach (ethics) college directors evidence toward you and your students? Are college directors an example you look to?
Other:6%  -"sometimes"; "yes and no"

7- Value of summer camps on college campuses for your students?

8- Summer workshops? Do you attend?
Other:.5%  -"not recently-I feel they don't always cover practical everyday problems"

9- Which of the following workshops are you most likely to attend?
Marching Band:36% 
Other:40%  -"jazz; materials; rehearsal techniques; concert band; literature; instrument repair; string; double reed, french horn, percussion; general; adjudicators clinic; interpretation; clinics such as Interlochen; district conferences and music reading sessions; developing and maintaining a band you can live with"

1- Do you receive enough notification (mailings, etc.) of college concerts and recitals?

2- Do you feel college directors pay enough attention to your activities schedule (attending games, concerts, etc.)-or just when they want their group to perform?
Other:2.5%  -"kinda"; "just when they want something"; "don't expect then to-too many bands"

3- Do you feel that college directors are well versed on the junior high and high school literature they may be called upon to guest conduct?
Other:6%  -"depends upon the director"; "sometimes"; "most have been away from school too long to know and understand today's problems"

4- What is the best way for college directors to visit your school? When are they welcome? How should they approach the band director?
Drop in:19.5% 
By appointment:35% 
At a concert21.5% 
At a football game10.5% 
As a speaker for band (music) banquet12.5% 
Other:1%  -"anytime"; "rehearsal"

5- Do universities make enough attempts to visit and recruit your students?
Other:2%  -"depends on school"; "small colleges do much better job"; "recruited usually after they have been heard in performance by college directors"

6- If called upon to give your views on the question before the task force, what would your main "gripes" or admonishments, concerns, or compliments (if any)?

7- Where do you feel the college director is succeeding? Where is he failing (in so far as you and your school are concerned)?


Contact with Public Schools
  1. College directors-and there certainly are exceptions-live in an ivy-covered office when it comes to knowing: usable literature, logistical and scheduling problems inherent in public schools, appealing and programmatic literature for high school student assembly concerts (too much "educating" and not enough "with-it" selections).
  2. Too many college band directors are too far removed from what is going on in the public schools (especially junior high and elementary).
  3. Mainly-the college instructor that has been away from the high school area for several years I'm certain does not relate to the current problems of scheduling-budgeting-student availability and discipline-that have come about in the last 5-10 years.
  4. The high schools "picture" has drastically changed in the past 10-15 years. Many college directors have not kept up and expect too much from a high school band organization.
  5. Not enough personal contacts with high school teachers and students. Need more activities on college campuses for high school students.
  6. Too often college directors lose sight of the unique problems in recruiting the small town band program. Judge contests with standards too high for small bands to attain.
  7. I feel many college people are on their own ego trips and fail to work their "roots" (high schools) as effectively as they might. A good question to ask might be, "WHO is really benefited by this concert, or band day, or etc."-or better yet, "Is this really benefiting everyone-or are we just doing it as it has been done in the past?" For tours-are the crowds on the tour a prime concern? Or is the quantity or quality of literature performed?
  8. Rarely ever see college directors except at contests.
  9. Every four years all college professors should be sent to the junior and senior highs to teach one year depending on classes taught.
  10. Failing in personal Public Relations with high school directors and programs (get in touch with all programs-not just the good programs because there are good musicians in all schools……informal drop-ins and occasionally attending a performance).

  1. Recruiting must be done by personal contact of the college directors, not by mailings, audition brochures, etc. There is a schism between the public school and college instrumental music program. I'm not sure what can be done about improving the relationship between the two, but it needs improved.
  2. Show more interest in school music programs by visiting, taking rehearsals at a reasonable cost.
  3. He could offer the services of his students as clinicians-the publicity would be good for the college band, and he would provide good examples for high school students.
  4. The college directors should show more interest in the high schools-after all-their future musicians are in our bands. Show us you are interested in our activities and enjoy our successes, too.
  5. I would like an even greater effort made to come around and visit with band students-to explain opportunities to continue playing in college, even though students might not be majoring in music.
  6. Strong communicative ties should be developed-and not just with alums but everybody in the "feeder" area.
  7. Small college band directors seem to be more interested in recruiting than do the large college directors.
  8. A lot is happening by mail-this is very ineffective; unless students going to large schools are majoring in music, they are often overlooked-some of our best. There are a lot of good players who would play if personally talked to-even after getting to college.
  9. The main concern of college directors is to "get that high school senior recruited." They are more interested in their own program than in mine. They are not in a hurry to help the "non-career" musician.
  10. The only time a college director has visited our school was to recruit students to his school of music. I sometime wonder if he knows what is really going on in the public school music programs, besides the outcome of State and District contests.
  11. Some make room for and encourage more non-music major students, so they might continue playing throughout college.
  12. Losing those many students that could and should continue but don't because of no encouragement to continue.

Politics - Conventions - Ethics
  1. Be more active in State Band Directors Association-more rapport between high school and college directors could benefit all concerned.
  2. My music students are quite aware of open conflicts of opinion and competition over students (i.e. - voice students against instrumental or orchestra vs. band), unethical practices (i.e. - director of one organization publicly admonishing another in the same department of school) and in some cases College Directors who look "down" upon Secondary Music Educators. Students or prospective students hear this and in many cases influence their choice of schools or possibly their choice of occupations. Believe me-what college people say and do is seen and heard at the high school level.
  3. I am a past president of the state band directors association and have found that few college directors attend or participate in our state activities. Some have indicated an interest in developing better relations between high school and college directors, but very little has been done beyond that. Space does not allow for me to list my personal views on this issue, but I can only add that the effects of cutbacks are going to affect high school bands seriously. The end result is that college band programs are also going to suffer.

Responsibility as a Conductor/Teacher
  1. I am concerned that college band directors, especially those at music education emphasis schools, strike an equal balance between their responsibilities as performance conductors and music educators educating future music educators.
  2. Jazz ensemble should be open to more students. College directors should make themselves available to help students improvise.
  3. College music departments should not overstress their jazz programs to the detriment of other groups which meet the needs of more students.
  4. Professionalism with humanity; musicianship with cordiality; ego with humility; suggestions for improvement without rancor or superiority; musical teaching without verboseness; and having a good performing group themselves.
  5. College groups should set a very high level of performance, while the directors keep in touch with what's going on in the public schools-at all levels and program sizes.

Students Coming Out of College - Training
  1. Most "now" music teachers are lazy and not willing to put forth the effort to have a quality program (or go beyond the call of duty). Colleges and universities tend to remove themselves from the problems existing in public schools today (only philosophical-noting practical).
  2. Teacher training-importance of developing good attitudes-conformity to demands of administration and public/professional image.
  3. That some colleges are still sending out graduates that are not prepared in instrument repair-public relations-and a few other areas-literature for solo and ensemble for one.
  4. There is, perhaps, a big of unrealistic feel when students come from college to elementary, junior high, senior high, in the expectation of what their students will produce. Realism could be stressed a bit more.
  5. Inadequate preparation in conducting; however, our colleges and universities have improved greatly in the training of prospective music teachers in the past 20 years.
  6. Prepare the teachers to deal with the students. Their conducting is fine and they usually know their instruments well enough. Help them to understand today's kids-the parents-their position in the total school program.
  7. Most students coming out of college band are versed only in college level materials and consequently are ill-prepared for junior high or high school work.
  8. College students are "luke-warm" about high school bands-mainly not "sold" on value and possibilities of excellence attainable by high school bands. Too many "conservatory oriented" college instructors gaining college band directing positions and converting them into wind ensembles with "practice-room" results.
  9. College music education students get very little, if an, experience in inner city schools-or low socio economic area schools and are often very inexperienced in coping with this type of student. I rather imagine college band directors are equally experienced at this!
  10. Would like to see a few more coming out to visit before their student teaching block takes place.
  11. Not providing adequate educational background to prepare high school band directors to do well at the mundane daily duties off the job.
  12. Do all colleges have an instrument repair class? Are there enough hours of actual preparedness on other than one major instrument, i.e. methods classes? Band students wishing to teach after graduation do not get a broad enough background in marching techniques and in the types of music they will be teaching in the public schools

  1. If I have any gripes it would be that most college directors are too political. They generally seem interested only when it suits their interests. Seldom do college directors "expose" themselves at such events where high school directors are gathered.
  2. Main gripe-college directors who "put down" high school students who do not play up to college students.
  3. #1 gripe about the college level instruction: studio, or staff private teachers rarely, if ever, acknowledge any work done by the public school teachers as a contributing factor in the attainment of the college music students. Human nature being what it is, this is a natural assumption to "take the credit" for the college musician's maturing as a performer. But why not a little PR?
  4. Occasionally a college band performs in our community an entire concert of contemporary "avant garde" music.

  1. Many college and university people expect too much out of a young freshman music major. Some think that the student's high school music background should be more extensive. With public school teaching loads the way they are in most schools, this is almost impossible.
  2. Many college directors tend to get a bit lazy. After a few years of good ideas, the ideas seem to fade and often times responsibility is passed to students in areas such as marching band shows. Graduate students do much of the band director's work at the schools I have been associated with. This is OK in some cases for experience's sake, but after a while I feel a sense of disorganization.
  3. Failure to help (in some way) the high schools band directors maintain their programs in this era of cuts of time and money! We need to stand together on these problems. College programs inevitably depend directly on the quality of the high school programs.
  4. I don't feel the college directors woes me anything and therefore can't "fail" me and my school. A college director owes all his strength and ability to his group and school and on his own time, if he chooses, he can guest conduct, lecture, etc. It is nice if he is "visible" at meeting, clinics, etc.
  5. The college director should try to influence school district administrators and school board for some positive changes for music (teachers as employees are not considered influential).
  6. If the college band director would get out into the "grass roots" and find out what is going on and why, then he may not be so critical of the students coming to him or of the directors, as he knows some of them.

  1. Most are sincere and interested. Most are very busy with their own problems.
  2. I have had nothing but good fortune in m contacts and requests for help with college band directors. They do not force themselves on our programs but they are there when we need them!
  3. In my case, the directors I have worked with have been very alert to the high school scene. The quality of their bands reflects their hard work and concern for high school programs.
  4. University efforts to help high school band directors (workshops, summer camps, university concerts, guest conducting for university directors, etc.) are generally effective and helpful. Efforts of university directors to maintain and increase the concert band's literature are much appreciated.
  5. They keep us informed of activities, concerts, etc. they sponsor clinics, reading sessions, etc. Various groups-ensembles, band, stage bands perform for the schools.
  6. Again it seems to depend on the faculty of the university-some do nothing and others go out of their way to help in any way they can.
  7. No gripes. In our immediate area we have some of the "best."
  8. Most college directors provide a standard of excellence both in marching and concert band that is helpful to us. They play literature beyond the grasp of high school groups which is as it should be and at times we try to perform these same pieces. The results are not always so good.
  9. I feel the best relationship existing between the public schools and colleges in the "weekend honor festival" approach.
  10. Since I teach in a college town, the music faculty has always been very cooperative about sending some of their specialists to help our high school band students in section rehearsals, etc.
  11. Keep the fine performance groups going. They help se a high standard.
  12. Exposing college band members to a great variety of fine band and wind ensemble literature. Good marching band technics. Some college directors are teaching excellent large group rehearsal techniques by example.
  13. Some college directors have been very helpful to my individual students and myself-professionally and musically. They are also the ones who have been through the mill, i.e. taught in grade school, junior high, and/or high school.
  14. Providing a quality program in which my students can continue to grow. We know the university directors are available if we need them.
  15. Setting high standards. But, please play some pieces your students might be able to use some day with a high school band.
  16. Overall I am very impressed with my fellow colleagues in the college and university levels. Keep up the good work.

Home About CBDNA News/Events/Articles Teaching Music Connecting with Audiences Ideas Resources Discussion Threads Member Services Related links Contact Us